Re: [AMBER] [PATCH 4/8] sqm: Fix OpenMP build

From: Reinis <>
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:30:25 +0300

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 09:15:18AM -0700, Ross Walker wrote:
> Hi Reinis,
> >>I have never received my own emails that I send to the list (I have for
> >> other lists, though). All of your patches were received.
> >
> >Thanks. Then it is probably an issue with mailman.
> I've looked into this a number of times and never found a proper solution.
> For me, and most people it works fine and they get copies of their
> messages. I actually think it is a gmail problem rather than a mailman
> issue. We have almost 1000 people subscribed with gmail accounts and
> Google's spam filter tends to way overzealous. If I set mailman to deliver
> to each account individually for each message packet then it appears to
> work fine but it then takes almost 90 minutes to send a complete message
> (and google gets upset after about 25 messages and tells the server to
> come back in 10 minutes :-( ) to all subscribers and things very rapidly
> spiral out of control as new messages come in.

It is not a problem of gmail's spam filter, it is the best I
have seen. Even if messages are marked as spam they are
accessible from Spam folder and go away only after certain
amount of time. About the real issue at the end.

> The problem is two fold. Firstly gmail can greylist things so message
> delivery for gmail accounts can often be substantially delayed and second
> gmail is I believe hiding your own copy of the message from you since it
> is trying to be too smart for it's own good and detecting the same message
> already in your sent items.

First time I hear that gmail might greylisting mails, never
happened to me in 5 years. Any noticable delay might be only
because using email client which checks for mail periodically,
so they show up in the program only after next check or Google
is having unconfined server problems (doesn't happen often).

Checking on the web reveals that if there is a problem with
greylisting, then it is for the mail sent FROM gmail because
retries are coming from different IPs, so the issue is at your

> Simple solution is to use a non-gmail account which would actually be
> better for everyone on the list. People should not be using 'anonymous'
> accounts to post to what is a scientific discussion list. I am tempted to
> enforce a rule that everyone posting either has an account where we can
> identify who they are OR signs their email with a signature identifying
> their full name, institution and affiliation.

No, that would be a wrong way to go. First, institution mail has
no place for high volume mailing lists. Second, people's names
and affiliations has nothing to do with scientific discussions.
Third, we are not talking here as representatives of our

You are already moderating signups for amber-developers which is
hilarious for publicly readable list. And you have absolutely no
pointer on website for where to send user contributions for
AmberTools (Bug tracker? Maintainer mail? Source repository with
the relevant information around? Give something!). I can tell
that my little experiment to send these patches was really
frustrating exactly because of these two reasons.

> A more complex solution would be to check your gmail settings and see if
> there is a way to prevent this sort of thing happening but I don't know of
> a solution. If you find one please let me know and I can add it to the
> list subscription instructions.

The issue seems to be with gmail as you already suggest. The
thing is that gmail recognizes duplicates using message IDs and
removes them without providing a configuration option to change
this behaviour.

So the solution would be to set mailman to change message ID (if
possible) or just document that this particular option will not
work with gmail (or any other account automatically and
unconditionally removing mails with the same IDs). The messages
are still saved (as sent) so they are available, but without any
modification mailman does to bounced mail.

It would also help if the archive would be updated as soon as
there are new posts.


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Received on Wed Oct 24 2012 - 12:00:03 PDT
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